fishsticks

Convincing argument against independence

381 posts in this topic

Now is the right time, just going into another global boom. 

 

The best argument I've heard for "allowing" 16 year olds to vote, they can pay tax, taking your money and not giving you a say is criminal. 

1 Wheres the proof we are entering a Boom?

2 I have been paying tax for well over 20 years.as no doubt the many,many thousands of Scots living around the world.

Yet we have no say.

 

It's bullshit Fishy and Salmond knows it.

He has cut out the vote of those Scot's he knows have ventured far and wide and who know going it alone is not all he is cracking it up to be.

Anyone who thinks this proposed transition is going to be easy is deluding themselves.

That includes Alex "Defender of Scotland " Salmond.

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Maybe so however so should the thousands of 16 year olds that work and who pay tax

They can.

We Can't.

 

How about the many 1000's of 16 year olds who have no ambition to work or pay tax they fine to vote too whilst they sponge off the system they don't want to contribute to?

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I know but you seem to disagree with the fact that they can

No if you go back and read my posts you will see I find it incredible Slamond wants 16 year old with very little life experience to be given a vote when theres 10's of thousands if not 100's of thousands of Scots born and bred adults out there who have no say based simply on the reasoning we no longer reside in Scotland.

 

It's a farce.

Seriously what the fuck does your average 16 year old know about life in General and how this decision will have a bearing on not only the present  but the future too?

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No if you go back and read my posts you will see I find it incredible Slamond wants 16 year old with very little life experience to be given a vote when theres 10's of thousands if not 100's of thousands of Scots born and bred adults out there who have no say based simply on the reasoning we no longer reside in Scotland.

 

It's a farce.

Seriously what the fuck does your average 16 year old know about life in General and how such a massive decision will have a bearing on it not only at present  but in the future too?

 

I'd actually prefer if Scots living outside Scotland had the vote as well. 

 

Back to the 16 year olds though. I know plenty of people in their 20's 30's 40's and older who never read a paper or watch the news, don't have a clue about politics or in fact care about politics as long as they are doing ok, yet they get to vote.

 

The outcome of the vote will have a massive impact on people who are 16 years right now so it is only right that they get the chance to contribute to the decision. Speaking with my son and his mates ( most of whom will be old enough to vote in September ) I was surprised at how smart most of them are and how clued up about the issues they are. As a parent I presented the pro and anti points to my son, he did some research himself and now had decided to vote "yes". ( which is a good job, as if he voted "no" he'd be looking for new digs in October ;)   ) 

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1 Wheres the proof we are entering a Boom?

2 I have been paying tax for well over 20 years.as no doubt the many,many thousands of Scots living around the world.

Yet we have no say.

 

It's bullshit Fishy and Salmond knows it.

He has cut out the vote of those Scot's he knows have ventured far and wide and who know going it alone is not all he is cracking it up to be.

Anyone who thinks this proposed transition is going to be easy is deluding themselves.

That includes Alex "Defender of Scotland " Salmond.

 

1 - Cyclical nature of the economy, it's how it works.

2 - How would you propose managing a vote? Send in a copy of your birth certificate? It's a ridiculous argument and completely unmanageable.

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No if you go back and read my posts you will see I find it incredible Slamond wants 16 year old with very little life experience to be given a vote when theres 10's of thousands if not 100's of thousands of Scots born and bred adults out there who have no say based simply on the reasoning we no longer reside in Scotland.

 

It's a farce.

Seriously what the fuck does your average 16 year old know about life in General and how this decision will have a bearing on not only the present  but the future too?

There's 16 year olds out there who hold family's together who work who could tell you a lot about life.

You can get a job at 16 you can get married at 16 you can get you're own place at 16 but according to you it's a farce if a 16 year old gets to vote lol sounds like you're a tad jealous mate coz you can't vote on it

bigsid likes this

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I would suggest we all get a vote as Scots born and bred,we have all contributed,we are all old enough to form a rational decision based on what we see and hear it really is that simple.

To deny a Scot born and bred the right to determine his Nations Future based purely on the basis of Logistics is indefensible in my opinion and reeks of more than Political Manipulation of the vote.

Salmond would rather give the vote to a bright eyed and gullible (generalisation for dramatic effect)16 year old who is easilly manipulated than give it to a well traveled adult who has forged a new life in the World and has a grasp on what is going on and what could well be at stake here.

 

I am not against an Independent Scotland Indefinitely I just happen to think right now in the Current Climate is not the right time to make a Small Nation even smaller when the Global Market Place is as volatile as it currently is.

 

 

1There's 16 year olds out there who hold family's together who work who could tell you a lot about life.

2You can get a job at 16 you can get married at 16 you can get you're own place at 16 but according to you it's a farce if a 16 year old gets to vote lol 3sounds like you're a tad jealous mate coz you can't vote on it

1Aye and theres plenty who know he haw about it too.

2Agreed you can.

3 Talking pish again I see.

End of debate.

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1 - Cyclical nature of the economy, it's how it works.

2 - How would you propose managing a vote? Send in a copy of your birth certificate? It's a ridiculous argument and completely unmanageable.

1 We have just had a Double Dip Recession

2 My National Insurance Contributions confirm all they need to know as does my Name being on the Electoral Vote in England.

Then there's my Service Record to the Nation I should Imagine theres more than a few Thousand who have one of those who are not eligible either.

 

Not as ridiculous as suggesting a 16 year old with zero life experience is any brighter an idea you could argue.

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the important question really is...if we leave the union and Europe, will we get duty free at the airports/ports/ border again??? <_<

I think Scotland automatically loses it's place within Europe if it Exit's the UK.

No need to worry about the duty free Neg Scotland The Brave Salmond say's "the rivers will run plentiful with whisky and oil"  :wub:

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I think Scotland automatically loses it's place within Europe if it Exit's the UK.

No need to worry about the duty free Neg Scotland The Brave Salmond say's "the rivers will run plentiful with whisky and oil"  :wub:

Lol you really love the bullshit you get force fed

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Mr Barroso feeding us the Bullshit....

 

"European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso has said it would be "extremely difficult, if not impossible" for an independent Scotland to join the European Union."

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-26215963

 

If it's Bullshit your after go watch some SNP Videos and Listen to Salmon wax Lyrical about "Freeeeeeedum".

Whit a fud.

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KD, with all sincerity, that link and the comments in it have been shown to be wrong, at least a month or so ago. 

 

The indie vote if passed will result in no need for an SNP or Salmond. I'm not one of his fans, I'm a Labour voter ( for all the actual good that has done for us ). The BT ( better together/ vote No ) campaign is so full of lies and propaganda that the YES campaign doesn't need to to much apart from point it out. I have many Scottish born relatives and friends who live outside Scotland, most of them accept that they won't have a vote, and also accept that they are being fed bullshit by the BT and BBC and MSM too. In fact most of my non Scottish born friends and relatives who now live here, are voting YES as it happens, Not for them themselves, but for their children who will be growing up and living here.

 

After Indie, and in 2015-17 we can vote for the Irn Bru party if we want, the SNP will have no reason to exist, it's called transition. It won't be smooth sailing. But it will be self determined. 

 

When Ireland became free, no one expected it to be easy. Why should it be different here? They fought for it, then fought each other too, we get a chance to make a change without the bloodshed and a civil war. I'm all up for that mate. Even if it means hard times for a bit.

Excellent post mate

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Mr Barroso feeding us the Bullshit....

 

"European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso has said it would be "extremely difficult, if not impossible" for an independent Scotland to join the European Union."

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-26215963

 

If it's Bullshit your after go watch some SNP Videos and Listen to Salmon wax Lyrical about "Freeeeeeedum".

Whit a fud.

I've always said vote yes then ditch the snp ASAP I don't like salmond but he's a means to an end

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The Europe thing is because Spain are shitting themselves the Catalans will split and leave Spain penniless. 

 

What I don't understand about the Europe argument is two things, from both sides. The SNP say look at Norway, but Norway have their own currency and are not in the EU so they have to explain their position there (see I can be balanced). The tories on the other hand have to tell us why they want out of europe anyway so even if we stay we'll be out. 

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The Europe thing is because Spain are shitting themselves the Catalans will split and leave Spain penniless. 

 

What I don't understand about the Europe argument is two things, from both sides. The SNP say look at Norway, but Norway have their own currency and are not in the EU so they have to explain their position there (see I can be balanced). The tories on the other hand have to tell us why they want out of europe anyway so even if we stay we'll be out.

Very sensible post mate it's good for us guys whom have moved for whatever reasons get to know what people actually think.

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Am I right in saying the Irish were bailed out last year to the tune of £14 billion by the British Government due to the state of their Economy?

What will Scotland do if the shit hit's the fan post split?

 

Go cap in hand to Westminster no doubt just like the Irish.

 

Except the English after being snubbed by Scotland might not be so forthcoming this time round.

Think on it's a big picture thing.

 

To do this right now in the current climate is a nonsense and a high risk move.

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Am I right in saying the Irish were bailed out last year to the tune of £14 billion by the British Government due to the state of their Economy?

What will Scotland do if the shit hit's the fan post split?

 

Go cap in hand to Westminster no doubt just like the Irish.

 

Except the English after being snubbed by Scotland might not be so forthcoming this time round.

Think on it's a big picture thing.

 

To do this right now in the current climate is a nonsense and a high risk move.

Ouch someone is clutching at straws scaremongering isn't cool vote yes

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Ouch someone is clutching at straws scaremongering isn't cool vote yes

 

 

The whisky industry ALONE brings in enough cash to sustain a small country !

 

Exports alone are 4.3 BILLION £'s  :lol: 

 

The Whisky industry ALONE brings in 135 Pounds a SECOND to the balance of trade in the UK.

 

And it is struggling to distill and meet the global demand in 2014.

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