fishsticks

Convincing argument against independence

381 posts in this topic

exactly what is it the english mps are scared of?

 

someone mentioned the basque country/region of spain and thats a good answer.

 

the fear is the north of england will soon be demanding their own independance on the back of ours.

 

Its no secret that those in the north despise those in the south particularly in the greater london area, and like the scots are also subject to having unwanted nuclear power stations and bases in their back yard. average salaries are also much much higher the further south you travel.

 

I just hope the moronics ramblings and scare tactics of the no campaign are not taken seriously by anyone allowed to vote.

 

After all all these fuckers do is belittle our proud nation and try to keep us down.

 

Also theres a massive percentage of the top jobs in Scotland occupied by english immigrants rather than a more deserving native.

pepperami likes this

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will you be coming back home if we get it mate, no just you mate also the other emigrants/ ex pats

Anything is possible one thing for sure is what my time away has told me no one gives a fuck about Scotland in England

MafieMcCue likes this

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Anything is possible one thing for sure is what my time away has told me no one gives a fuck about Scotland in England

well said mate we are just a joke to a lot of them

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also if the eu dont want us fuck them too im  sure russia would be happy to offer us some sort defence deal. for those worried about that.

 

the way the global politics are right now is like a giant game of risk, everybody wants some sort of stake in any country with any valuable assets

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Make sure you look at both sides I'm undecided as I constantly change my mind.

I thought Scotia paid more tax till i read this

Scots each receive almost £1,300 more public spending than the English despite a sharp drop in the taxes they pay to the UK Exchequer, according to official figures unveiled by Alex Salmond that cast doubt on his case for independence.

Scotland’s deficit –the difference between spending and taxes raised north of the Border– spiralled to 8.3 per cent of GDP in 2012/13, the Government Expenditure and Revenue Scotland (GERS) has found.

While tax revenues were £800 higher per head in Scotland than the UK as a whole, public spending was £1,267 more per person north of the Border.

The deterioration in Scotland’s finances was caused by a sudden £4.4 billion drop in revenue from oil –a 41.5 per cent fall in North Sea revenues compared to the previous year.

The UK’s deficit fell to 7.3 per cent of GDP over the same period, the report said, leaving Scotland deeper in the red to the tune of £1.5 billion or £283 per person.

The figures threaten to inflict serious damage on Mr Salmond’s economic case for independence, which has repeatedly claimed Scotland is wealthier than the UK as a whole.

Unveiling them at a press conference in Edinburgh, the First Minister argued that Scotland’s finances were £1,600 per person stronger than the UK’s over the last five years, a period that has coincided with the economic crash and high oil prices.

But opposition politicians said the figures demonstrated the dangers of an independent country relying on an “uncertain, volatile and finite” resource like oil, with a further reduction in North Sea revenue expected this year.

They argued that a separate Scottish government would have had a £4.4 billion hole punched in its finances, requiring major cuts to public services and tax increases.

Alistair Darling, the former Labour Chancellor and leader of the pro-UK Better Together campaign, said: “This is a landmark moment in the debate. This is the day that Alex Salmond’s own figures made the case against independence.

“If Scotland was independent today we would have no option but to cut spending on services like schools and hospitals or put up taxes –or probably both. Today as part of the UK we don’t have to do that.”

Danny Alexander, the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, published figures predicting the gap between Scottish spending and tax revenue would increase to £1,000 per person by 2016/17.

“Today the Scottish Government’s argument for independence has been undermined by their own figures,” the Liberal Democrat MP said.

“Whatever the Scottish Government says now, the government of an independent Scotland would be forced to raise taxes and cut public services. We are better off together.”

Iain Gray, Scottish Labour’s finance spokesman, said: “These figures are an embarrassment for Alex Salmond and John Swinney and completely discredit the SNP’s fiscal case for independence.”

The GERS figures showed Scotland accounted for around £65 billion of public expenditure in 2012/13 while generating £53 billion of taxes.

Its public spending deficit increased to £12 billion from the previous year’s figure of £8.5 billion. Over the same period the UK’s deficit fell by around £2.6 billion.

Scotland now accounts for 9.3 of the UK’s public spending and 9.1 per cent of the taxes paid to the Exchequer.

The sharp increase in Scotland’s deficit coincided with North Sea oil revenues falling from £11.3 billion in 2011/12 to £6.6 billion the following year. Of the £4.7 billion total drop, the report said £4.4 billion occurred in the seas around Scotland.

It blamed a “combination of unplanned production stoppages at several large gas fields and higher levels of maintenance activity.” Another factor was increased capital investment in the North Sea, which the report said had reduced companies’ tax liabilities.

Mr Salmond said the investment would filter through and result in increased tax receipts in future, adding that the industry forecasts production will increase 14 per cent between 2013 and 2018.

He said: “Today’s GERS report confirms what independent commentators and analysts have been making clear: Scotland is one of the wealthiest countries in the world.”

Challenged to explain how a separate Scotland would have coped with a £4.4 billion cut in oil revenues, he outlined plans to set up a “stabilisation fund” that would squirrel away some oil revenues in good years for use when they unexpectedly dropped.

Not arguing for or against I just posted this as I was suprised by it. I thought the Snp's financial argument was pretty strong till I read this.

I don't get a vote as ive lifted now in England as long as I did in Scotland , this year . 17 years a piece.

Who Killed Kenny? likes this

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ofcourse there was a drop in oil income for the first time in 30 odd years, because there was record investment.. if it was about to run out  as no want us to belive then why was there record investment???? have to speculate to accumulate.  scotland fell for the the oil crap in the 70's then it was proven torys and labour lied,kept information secret.. why now, do people still believe we are to wee and to poor... ffs whisky alone is worth about £150 a second to uk balence of payment

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scotlands income 56.9 billion
 
scotlands spends 64 billion
 
scotland spends more than it earns
 
what about the uk
 
uk income 573 billion
uk spends 696 billion
 
so the uk deflict is 121 billion
 
 
everyone says scotland cant go alone, they spend more than they earn, look how much more uk spends more than it earns
 
for every £100 scotland makes it spends £113
 
for every £100 uk makes it spends £121
 
 
 
 
scotland:
population- 5.3m
income/person- £10.741
expenditure/person- £12.181
 
uk
population- 63.25m
income/person- £9.054
expenditure/person- £10.966
 
spending per person in scotland is £1215 higher than uk average
 
taxes raised per person in scotland are £1684 higher per person than uk average
 
 
scotlant spends more than it earns but it also generates more than that in tax per person than rest of uk
 
the uk debt and deflict is a f*****g mess, worse than spain gdp..
 
uk deflict is £121 billion and a debt of £1.4 trillion
 
scotland also makes more gdp than the uk, remove oil and gas then scotlands wealth per head is almost the same as rest of uk
 
 
 
 
 
 
no campain and supporters use statistics of Scotland having 8.4% of the uks population but receiving 9.3% of its public spending as enthusiastically as they ignore the statistic from the same source that Scotland also contributes 9.9% of the funding of that spending. 

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scotlands income 56.9 billion
 
scotlands spends 64 billion
 
scotland spends more than it earns
 
what about the uk
 
uk income 573 billion
uk spends 696 billion
 
so the uk deflict is 121 billion
 
 
everyone says scotland cant go alone, they spend more than they earn, look how much more uk spends more than it earns
 
for every £100 scotland makes it spends £113
 
for every £100 uk makes it spends £121
 
 
 
 
scotland:
population- 5.3m
income/person- £10.741
expenditure/person- £12.181
 
uk
population- 63.25m
income/person- £9.054
expenditure/person- £10.966
 
spending per person in scotland is £1215 higher than uk average
 
taxes raised per person in scotland are £1684 higher per person than uk average
 
 
scotlant spends more than it earns but it also generates more than that in tax per person than rest of uk
 
the uk debt and deflict is a f*****g mess, worse than spain gdp..
 
uk deflict is £121 billion and a debt of £1.4 trillion
 
scotland also makes more gdp than the uk, remove oil and gas then scotlands wealth per head is almost the same as rest of uk
 
 
 
 
 
 
no campain and supporters use statistics of Scotland having 8.4% of the uks population but receiving 9.3% of its public spending as enthusiastically as they ignore the statistic from the same source that Scotland also contributes 9.9% of the funding of that spending. 

 

 

Next you'll be telling us the UK has one of the biggest deficits in the world and comparable countries to Scotland like Norway have among the largest surpluses................ oh wait........

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There is far more to consider than just income and outgoings.

There's the Global Financial state to consider ie Chinas "boom" being bankrolled in debt numbers I cannot be arsed typing=Massive debts.

There's the Currency issue

Then there's the EU Membership problems 

Then there's the National Debt

Then there's the Problems with Defence and Spending on Defence in a very very fragile World

 

All of this will have major implications on Scotland opting out of the UK and going it alone.

To ignore these factors so one can simply say "well were in control of our own destiny" is not only narow minded but in my view extremely dangerous at this present time.

 

Scotland is Scotland regardless of who is in control of the purse they are all self serving charlatans when it boils down to it and anyone who thinks the likes of Samond are in this purely for the good of our Nation is very deluded and misguided indeed.

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There is far more to consider than just income and outgoings.

There's the Global Financial state to consider ie Chinas "boom" being bankrolled in debt numbers I cannot be arsed typing=Massive debts.

There's the Currency issue

Then there's the EU Membership problems 

Then there's the National Debt

Then there's the Problems with Defence and Spending on Defence in a very very fragile World

 

All of this will have major implications on Scotland opting out of the UK and going it alone.

To ignore these factors so one can simply say "well were in control of our own destiny" is not only narow minded but in my view extremely dangerous at this present time.

 

Scotland is Scotland regardless of who is in control of the purse they are all self serving charlatans when it boils down to it and anyone who thinks the likes of Samond are in this purely for the good of our Nation is very deluded and misguided indeed.

 

 

i bet in the past you have sung the songs about one countrys right but you are against scotlands, pot calling the kettle? if i misread then ill eat humble pie...

 

 

Then there's the EU Membership problems - why is this still a big problem, more and more information comes out, looking like scotland will have no major problems rejoining... dont go on marcos stuff....... there more risk on the uk leaving the eu with the eu vote looming, remember what the south of england wants we have to accept..

 

then there's the National Debt- whats the problems with that, i think its clear so far....

 

 

 Then there's the Problems with Defence and Spending on Defence in a very very fragile World-  there more facts out there on this aswell, iscotland would have more to spend on defence in scotland then the uk spend in scotland at the moment.. there there also the current problem with no maritime patrols etc in the north, so when the likes of russia etc enter our waters it takes over 24 hours to scramble ships from portsmouth like what happened a few months ago...we dont need a huge army, we dont need to spend billions on wmd to shadow the usa and try be top dog, what we should be doing is putting the country/people first

 

i can go into the above in more details if you wish

 

 

salmond again,, blame blame salmond. a yes vote is not for salmond!!

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So if the UK are in debt . Scotlands wants out. How much do we have to pay back after yes vote. Will just be aloud to walk away from Debt we helped create or are we not entitled to as we pay more tax and its not fare?

Who Killed Kenny? likes this

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if the uk share the assets that scotland help build/pay for over the years then its fair we take on our share of the debt.. if they refuse the assets then by international law we dont need to take on any of the debt as the debt is signed the uk name not scotlands.. uk had to garentee the debt not long ago if we vote yes as it was causing a few issues, uk debt its about 1.4 trillion, give our take .1/ or 2 lol

 

 

i hope yous dont mind a copy and paste, 

 

 

Question: 

What will happen with the current National (UK) debt? Will we have a share to pay?

Answer: 

The Scottish Government will negotiate to pay a share of the UK's debt, at the same time as negotiating a fair share of its assets.  Under any realistic scenario, Scotland's projected share of debt as a percentage of its national wealth (or GDP) will be smaller than the UK's share expressed in the same terms.  (This is because our national wealth per head of population is larger than that for the UK). 

Precise estimates of the amount of debt we inherit change over time as revenue, expenditure and growth forecasts change. and also depending on how the debt is divided - that division would require negotiation between the Scottish and UK governments.

The most common approach used by experts is to divide the debt according to our share of population.  When the Scottish Government published its white paper "Scotland's Future" in November 2013, it projected that Scotland's share of debt on this basis would be roughtly equivalent to 75% of national wealth (or GDP) in 2016/17.

An earlier report by the expert independent economists on the  Scottish Government’s Fiscal Commission Working Group estimated that a population share in 2017-18, the groupwould be worth £126 billion, equivalent to 72% of Scottish GDP. This would be slightly lower than the equivalent UK figure of 77%.  The report can be read in full here.

An alternative way to determine Scotland’s share of UK public sector debt could be to base the calculation on an estimate of Scotland’s previous contributions to the UK’s public finances.

According to the economists on the Fiscal Commission, this would imply that Scotland’s estimated share of UK debt would be worth £40.6 billion. This is equivalent to approximately 27.6% of Scottish GDP (including North Sea oil), lower than the population share calculation.  An updated calculation on this basis by the Scottish Government (in "Scotland's Future") found our share of debt in 2016/17 would be £100 billion, or around 55% of our national wealth (GDP).

The bottom line is that all these figures show that the level of debt would be more manageable for an independent Scotland, than for the UK.

With stronger public finances we would also be better placed to manage our share of the debt.

With independence, the Scottish Government and Scottish Parliament you elect would be responsible for Scotland's public finances and would be able to make sure our wealth was working in the interests of the people of Scotland.  "Scotland's Future" contains detailed proposals, based on the recommendations of the Fiscal Commission, for a new debt management office with skilled and experienced staff, and an institutional framework all designed to ensure we build credibility in the sovereign bond markets.  

This, taken together with the fact the Scotland is one of the wealthiest economies on the planet, means we should quickly establish credibility and benefit from low borrowing costs enjoyed by other small independent nations.  Norway, Switzerland, Denmark and even now Ireland are all benefiting from lower borrowing costs than the UK.

And a report from New York-based ratings agency Standard and Poor’s confirmed that “even excluding North Sea output and calculating per capita GDP only by looking at onshore income, Scotland would qualify for our highest economic assessment”.  In conclusion, “we would expect Scotland to benefit from all the attributes of an investment-grade sovereign credit characterised by its wealthy economy, high-quality human capital, flexible product and labour markets, and transparent institutions”.  

Of course dealing with the debt will be a challenge, but we'll be able to adopt the right strategy for Scotland.  We could choose a different approach to the austerity agenda being pursued by both Westminster parties - an agenda that is failing to bring debt down, is causing hardship for hundreds of thousands of Scottish families, and is stifling economic recovery.

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Can you now copy and paste the action plan for when Chinas Boom goes bust and the Global Market heads into meltdown as a result.

Cheers I await the detailed response with baited breath.

 

Could you also outline Scotland proposal for Defence and the Budgets set asside for creating it's own defence force outwith that of the UK?

 

Can you also supply the evidence as to where all the current EU memebers has stated they are fine with Scotland gaining entry back into the EU as a seperate entity from the Uk.

I gather Spain are not really up for this.

 

Ta

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The uk goverment are trying its best to cut ties with Europe so for Scotland not being classed as an eu country is a bad thing the uk goverment tell us lol can't get my head around it.

Vote yes..

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Can you now copy and paste the action plan for when Chinas Boom goes bust and the Global Market heads into meltdown as a result.

Cheers I await the detailed response with baited breath.

 

Could you also outline Scotland proposal for Defence and the Budgets set asside for creating it's own defence force outwith that of the UK?

 

Can you also supply the evidence as to where all the current EU memebers has stated they are fine with Scotland gaining entry back into the EU as a seperate entity from the Uk.

I gather Spain are not really up for this.

 

Ta

 

 

what kind of defence do you think a small nation like scotland needs..at the moment scotland contributes about 3 billion to defence spending in the uk, only 2 billion of that is spent in scotland.. its said a budget in the region of 2-3 billion would mean increased defence and security in scotland, infact it would be similar defence budget to countries like denmark. 

 

defence in scotland has been cut alot over the years, probaly more to come if we vote no.. we dont need huge army, we dont need to try be top dog and shadow usa while our people starve. we would have a capable army, able to support allies when needed, fight for country when needed instead of being sent to fake wars.

 

the scots have proven over many years and in many wars we can hold our own, we will get our share of assets, there will be soldiers from the uk armed forced that will join and ofcourse new recruits.

 

 

the eu argument, there more chance of us leaving with the in/out vote looming, its well stated what south england want, they out vote us, as they have done in many general elections.

 

if scotland votes yes, we will still be a eu member for two years, in those two years we have enough time to iron out small details, even the uk govs expert on the matter said thats enough time http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/legal-expert-says-scotland-could-1704454.

 

we can only go on the information provided, professer sionaidh douglas scot, professor of european and human rights law at oxford uni states- any future independent scotlands eu membership should be assured, and its transition from the eu membership qua part of the uk ( as we will be for 2 years ) to eu membership qua independent scotland relatively smooth and straightfoward

 

scotland already meets all the requirements for membership, david cameron already said he would support scotlands membership.

 

barroso said securing support from the 28 member states would be extremely difficult....... professor michael keating has since said(also mentions spain)

 

 

The debate on whether an independent Scotland would be a member of the European Union refuses to go away, in spite of all the work put into clarifying matters. The latest intervention from Commission president, Jose Manuel Barroso merely confuses the question.

Like most people who have studied the matter, I have long argued that Scotland would need to apply for membership but that it would be admitted.

  1. Under the terms of the Edinburgh Agreement, Scotland would be recognized by the United Kingdom. There is no reason for any of the other  EU members to refuse recognition. There is no precedent for a seceding state, recognized by the host state, not being recognized by others.
  2. EU membership is open to any recognized European democracy that meets the Copenhagen criteria and adopts the acquis communautaire. Scotland has been within the EU/ EC for over forty years and does meet these criteria.
  3. The situation is not like Catalonia, where the Spanish government has ruled out an independence referendum and the constitution forbids secession.
  4. Incidentally, Barroso has got himself tied in knots with his repeated argument that an independent Catalonia would be outside the EU. The real point about the Spanish constitution is that an independent Catalonia is impossible altogether, so Catalonia could not be outside the EU. By suggesting that it would be outside the EU, Barroso has fallen into the trap of accepting that Catalonia could be independent.
  5. It is in nobody’s interest to throw Scotland out of the single market – not Scotland, the rest of the UK, the other member states, business or anyone would gain from this.
  6. There is no ‘queue’ to get into the EU. Applicants are admitted as and when they are ready. Turkey first tried to get in 50 years ago, so if there were a queue they would be at the head; but 22 other states have got in before them.
  7. As the UK Government noted in one of its papers, the Nordic states completed negotiations in 1-2 years.  Were Iceland or Norway to change their minds and apply now, they would be in very quickly.
  8. Barosso’s comparison of Scotland with Kosovo is utterly misplaced. Kosovo is not recognized by a number of EU states because it is not yet recognized by Serbia. It emerged from the last of the Balkan wars, complete with mass killing and ethnic cleansing. Comparing this process with that of the Edinburgh Agreement, which was a model for democratic ways of dealing with the issue, is dangerous and a disservice to democracy itself.
  9. The role of the European Commission in the accession process for a new member state is limited to certifying that the state meets the membership requirements. If Scotland does meet those requirements, Barroso (or his successor) would be obliged to make a favourable recommendation to the European Council and not to invent new political criteria.
  10. There are many questions about Scotland’s position and strategy within the EU, which the Yes side need to clarify. These include the implications of keeping the Pound, a matter on which the Yes side has recently been put on the back foot. Suggesting that Scots would be thrown out of the European Union simply for exercising their democratic rights, however, is to undermine the very basis of the European order.
  11. None of this is in itself an argument for independence. Unionists can argue that Scotland is better off as part of a big EU state than as a small independent one. It is not consistent, however, to agree that Scots can vote to be an independent state but then seek to deprive them of the basic rights of any European democracy. 

 fromer european editior of the gardian john palmer said the argument that scotlands people could be deprived eu rights as laughable

 

 

The warning from the president of the European commission, José Manuel Barroso, that an application by an independent Scotland to join the European Union would be "difficult if not impossible" to negotiate is both politically maladroit and unlikely to improve Barrosso's lamentable record in running the EU's executive for the past 10 years as he now prepares to leave office.

In seeking to frighten Scottish voters with dire predictions that the Spanish government might veto any Scottish EU membership application, he was, of course, merely mimicking identical declarations by David Cameron and the main Scottish unionist leaders. They have all stressed that Madrid would probably block Scotland for fear that otherwise the growing movement for Catalan independence would become irresistible.

But the language being used by the Spanish government does not support these dire predictions. In a recent interview the Spanish foreign minister, José Manuel Garcia-Margallo, stated that a Scottish EU application should be considered in the event of a Yes victory in the referendum. He went on to insist: "If Britain's constitutional order allows – and it seems that it does – Scotland to choose independence, we have nothing to say about this."

More strikingly he went out of his way to distance himself from suggestions that the Scottish and Catalan cases were inseparable for Madrid. "The two issues are 'fundamentally different'," he declared.

 

Of course, a referendum victory for Scottish independence would have to be followed by detailed negotiations on a host of practical issues between Edinburgh and London, and between both Edinburgh and London and Brussels. But suggestions that these negotiations might stretch into the indefinite future are baseless. Scotland has already accepted a mountain of detailed EU law as part of the UK.

Two issues which require sensitive handling are fishing policy – where Edinburgh may seek some adjustments in the current regime – and, more importantly, whether and in what form it should be committed to eventual membership of the euro. Most insiders in Brussels believe there is little reason to doubt that negotiations could be wrapped up in about two years after the referendum if the Yes campaign emerges victorious.

It cannot be stressed too often that there is no provision in EU law for, in the meanwhile, depriving Scottish EU citizens of their existing rights as EU citizens. Such a step can in EU law can only be contemplated when an existing member state has been legally shown to have committed serious violations of European democratic or human rights provisions.

In the hullabaloo created by English Tory and Scottish unionist politicians, one critical question has been overlooked. Without Scotland could the present UK state be regarded it as the same state it was? A United Kingdom of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland it would no longer be. If so, why should the status of the "rump UK" be any different to that of Scotland?

Whatever answer is given to this question, it is certain that the London government will have to negotiate with Brussels about some key aspects of Britain's EU membership. These include its voting power in the Council of Ministers and its representation in the European parliament – both of which will have to be reduced because its population will have decreased. There will also have to be some adjustment to its annual contribution to the EU budget (which should also be reduced).

When all the theatricals surrounding this debate are set aside, the fact remains that it is in everyone interests (Edinburgh, London and the EU) that the Scottish people retain all their rights within the European Union.

 

The EU is currently waging a desperate struggle in Ukraine and elsewhere with Moscow to demonstrate the superiority of its democratic values. The idea that the Scottish people could be ejected or indefinitely suspended from the EU for opting for national independence is laughable.

 

you might remember when the no side jumped on junckers comments

 

 

 

over the next five years, there won't be any new member states acceding to the European Union.  It's hard to imagine that one of the candidate states with whom we are negotiating will have, in time, met all the accession criteria.

 

the above was refering to countries such as turkey,macedonia,serbia and others. the difference is, scotland meets the criteria, as scotland is already a member! juncker was talking about new countries into the eu, not about kicking out countries that are already in the eu.

 

the no campain had some egg on face when claims junckers comment quoted above included scotland were directly contradicted by junckers spokeswoman. a few days later, no arguments were in trouble again when a high ranking official confirmed the scottish gov view on eu membership. the official told scotland on sunday that scotland would be exempt from the normal application precess as its already a signatory to the core requirements for nation states in areas such as employment rights and equality legislation due to its 40 year eu membership. 

 

as said above even david cameron said he would support iscotland joining the eu, spain has also acknowladged scotlands referendum is fundamentally different to basque and catalan claims for autonomy.

 

 

look at the attitide of eu governments towards uk govs in/out vote. when so many speak out against the uk leaving the eu, why would they force scotland out????

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I still think this is a massive gamble in the current Global Climate.

10-15 years from now?

Could be a totally different ball game.

 

I have no vote as previously indicated but if I did it would be a flat NO in the Current climate both home and abroad.

 

Greater powers over Scotlands own Interests would be the Ideal solution for me give those in Power or those aiming to be in Power in a Separated Scotland 5-10 years to prove they are not only up to the job running the Country now but also capable of delivering a Better Scotland for all by creating more Jobs and reinvigorating those Industries that have been sadly neglected over the past few decades.

 

If they cannot handle more powers then you can bet your bottom Dollar they cannot handle controlling the lot.

If they can then yes of course go for it.

 

The Global Situation is far too unstable at present to be predicting what will and wont happen and so therefore the risks of going it alone are increased.

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I still think this is a massive gamble in the current Global Climate.

10-15 years from now?

Could be a totally different ball game.

 

I have no vote as previously indicated but if I did it would be a flat NO in the Current climate both home and abroad.

 

Greater powers over Scotlands own Interests would be the Ideal solution for me give those in Power or those aiming to be in Power in a Separated Scotland 5-10 years to prove they are not only up to the job running the Country now but also capable of delivering a Better Scotland for all by creating more Jobs and reinvigorating those Industries that have been sadly neglected over the past few decades.

 

If they cannot handle more powers then you can bet your bottom Dollar they cannot handle controlling the lot.

If they can then yes of course go for it.

 

The Global Situation is far too unstable at present to be predicting what will and wont happen and so therefore the risks of going it alone are increased.

 

you said-I still think this is a massive gamble in the current Global Climate.

10-15 years from now?

Could be a totally different ball game.

 

why is that, uk pm has proven to piss £ against a brick wall, they are digging a bigger hole and we will go down with them.. you prefer money was wasted on trident, you prefer privated nhs, you prefer alot of the stuff you and your family benifit from removed, you prefer the barnet formula to be removed.... the uk debt is about 1.4 trillion.....

 

surly if we finaly have a government we vote for each and everytime, we have more chance of having government working in scotlands interest instead of south england.. surly if we dont piss profits against a brick wall we will be in a better postion.

 

 

you said- Greater powers over Scotlands own Interests would be the Ideal solution for me give those in Power or those aiming to be in Power in a Separated Scotland 5-10 years to prove they are not only up to the job running the Country now but also capable of delivering a Better Scotland for all by creating more Jobs and reinvigorating those Industries that have been sadly neglected over the past few decades.

 

how many countries have won indpendence and have asked to rejoin... the scottish gov has done a good job with limited powers/one hand tied behind back, full powers is needed.

 

if we continue to stay in the uk, then we are truly fucked

 

the facts are there, prove scotland can go alone.. even david cameron agrees scotland could....

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you said-I still think this is a massive gamble in the current Global Climate.

10-15 years from now?

Could be a totally different ball game.

 

why is that, uk pm has proven to piss £ against a brick wall, they are digging a bigger hole and we will go down with them.. you prefer money was wasted on trident, you prefer privated nhs, you prefer alot of the stuff you and your family benifit from removed, you prefer the barnet formula to be removed.... the uk debt is about 1.4 trillion.....

 

surly if we finaly have a government we vote for each and everytime, we have more chance of having government working in scotlands interest instead of south england.. surly if we dont piss profits against a brick wall we will be in a better postion.

 

 

you said- Greater powers over Scotlands own Interests would be the Ideal solution for me give those in Power or those aiming to be in Power in a Separated Scotland 5-10 years to prove they are not only up to the job running the Country now but also capable of delivering a Better Scotland for all by creating more Jobs and reinvigorating those Industries that have been sadly neglected over the past few decades.

 

how many countries have won indpendence and have asked to rejoin... the scottish gov has done a good job with limited powers/one hand tied behind back, full powers is needed.

 

if we continue to stay in the uk, then we are truly fucked

 

the facts are there, prove scotland can go alone

Time will tell on that score Cadete besides I don't happen to think it will happen myself.

If it does then fairplay to those that made it happen.

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Time will tell on that score Cadete besides I don't happen to think it will happen myself.

If it does then fairplay to those that made it happen.

 

you dont agree scotland makes enough to stand on its own? you dont agree scotlands money has been wasted over the years and could be managed better by a government working in scotlands interest, investing scotlands money in scotland.. not wmd, not fast railway for england, not fake wars etc etc..

 

do you think the barnet formula should be removed?

 

do you or your family benifit from any of the snp polices with limited powers, policys that rest of uk are complaining about.. council tax freeze since snp got in, free uni, free prescriptions, free nhs, and more...

 

scotland has proven it can afford the stuff it has, and if we get 100% control and use money right we will be in a better position if anything happens in future, or when the oil runs out.

 

 

whats so good about being part of the uk, the uk pms got us into this mess, its clearly not working... how many chances do we give them, lets learn from mistakes before its to late

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